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Updates on LWD Marino Aggro Deck (13/3/2022)

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madmicro0430
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Post by madmicro0430 10.10.21 7:23

Hi, today I'd like to share with you a LWD Marino Aggro Deck.

Actually I have created ~10 versions of it, with different evo creatures in each version. The staple cards are roughly the same, with some changes necessary for synergy.

To avoid giving just a superficial discussion on each version, the post will be updated with different versions of the deck from time to time, rather than posting all of them at one go.

So today let's start with the one that is perhaps the strongest version out of the LWD Marino Aggro Deck.

LWD Marino-Hydrooze-Ailzonius Deck:
Updates on LWD Marino Aggro Deck (13/3/2022) Lwd_ma10

You can see it's kind of a mixture of the Hydooze deck and Ailzonius deck.

The reason why I think it's the strongest LWD Marino Aggro deck (among my own creations) is because it has the two strongest evo creatures: Hydrooze and Ailzonius (in my opinion: Ailzonius > Hydrooze)

Game plan is simple: to break shields with strong creatures (that are powerful, unblockable and cannot be chosen)

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Mana curve:
Mana-no. of cards:
2-8
3-7
4-8 (+5)
5-6
6-6

While you can see that it's a bit 4-drop heavy, bingole and hydrooze are not something that you'll summon in the 4th turn. So only 8 4-drops you will in fact summon in the 4th turn.

You may argue more 2/3-drops can be added, but I think after considering other factors, e.g. effective evo baits, color of civs, the cards needed for late game aggro, I think now it's the perfect balance.

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Evo baits:
For hydrooze: while propeller mutant and loco are commonly played as evo baits in the traditional WD Hydrooze deck, note that marino and syrion are also evo baits for hydrooze in this deck as well! In total there're 14 baits for hydrooze. Syrion is particularly great as it serves as a evo bait for both hydrooze and Ailzonius

For Ailzonius: total 9 evo baits for Ailzonius, short of 1 Syrion that is normally present in the traditional LW Ailzonius deck. This is to avoid having 7 multi-colored cards in the deck which can be bricky.

Ailzonius x 3 and Hydrooze x 3 is probably the best ratio. 4:2 or 2:4 would damage the paralleled strategies. The intention is to have both Ailzonius and hydrooze in succession within the same game to give your opponent a hard time. It's not like one is the main strategy, while the other one as back-up.

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Draw cards:
Magris x 4
Hulcus x 4
Marino x 3
Such ratio of draw cards is probably necessary against heavy discards and to sustain the continued aggro pressure. I don't think cutting any one card is ideal.

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Color of civs:
L: 16 (+3)
D: 11 (+3)
W: 8 (+6)
Obviously since this is a Marino deck, the water cards are kept at minimum. To compensate for the water mana, 6 multi-civ cards with water are in place.

Multi-civ cards:
The 6 multi-civ cards can sometimes be bricky in the early game when u draw 2-3 of them in ur starting hands.

Almost always I will have a multi-civ card in the starting hand, and that card definitely will go to the mana zone in the first turn, particularly hydrooze as it's useless in the early game without board presence.

This problem is also dealt with by the large amount of draw cards, which guarantee you have mono-civ cards to be placed in mana zone even from turn 3/4 onwards.

Overall it's quite well-balanced I'd say.

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Hand guards:
Bingole x 2
Always good to have hand guards in aggro deck.
Arque is not included here as it will be discarded by Marino. Bingole = good evo baits + good marino draw.
In my other LWD Marino decks in which gladiator baits are not required, Dava Torey would be hand guards of choice.

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Weaknesses: in essence, compare this deck with the traditional LW Ailzonius and WD hydrooze deck, then you will know the weaknesses

1. No shield manipulation with Emeral. Becuz of the need to limit the water civ, Emeral is out of the picture. You then can't make sure u have an awe/pit in ur shield, which is a pity.

2. No surfer. For similar reason as above, unfortunately surfer is out, which is a damn gd card in aggro deck. It's replaced by terror pit.

3. No low-cost removal cards. No kolon, spiral gate, unicorn fish, corile etc... The first effective removal cards are awe/pit in turn 6. Might be a bit too late against other aggro/rush decks.

4. Chance of decking out against control, especially when you only draw Marino in the late game. A late game Marino is pretty saddening as it means you don't have the draw engine kept going for continued aggro pressure in mid-game. It also means a high chance of decking out.

5. No petrova as buff. Because of tight space, it has to be cut.

It's a long discussion. Hope you enjoy it. Feel free to leave comments below.
loui-mh
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Post by loui-mh 28.11.21 12:27

Interesting list and idea mixing Ali and Hydrooze!
I'm playing currently the same civ combination but playing Kizar instead of Ali, therefore having more playable 2drops (Ballas/Migalo) and ofc Emeral should be included.
The biggest problem with your build is the early game imo. You only play four 2drops that can attack (Prope) and only seven 3drops which are both imo absolutely not enough for an aggro deck.
I would consider switching Gladiators for a more useful race for this kind of aggro deck since Belix is a good but not useful 2drop here (e.g. Initiates have Migalo/Ballas, Guardians have Sol Galla).
If you want to stick with Gladiators I would cut both evos to 2 and one Marino to make room for 3x Emeral.
Maybe cutting one of Holy Awe and Pit for two Surfers and to reduce the risk of having a spell in turn 2 in your mana for Belix.
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Post by madmicro0430 28.11.21 14:18

loui-mh wrote:Interesting list and idea mixing Ali and Hydrooze!
I'm playing currently the same civ combination but playing Kizar instead of Ali, therefore having more playable 2drops (Ballas/Migalo) and ofc Emeral should be included.
The biggest problem with your build is the early game imo. You only play four 2drops that can attack (Prope) and only seven 3drops which are both imo absolutely not enough for an aggro deck.
I would consider switching Gladiators for a more useful race for this kind of aggro deck since Belix is a good but not useful 2drop here (e.g. Initiates have Migalo/Ballas, Guardians have Sol Galla).
If you want to stick with Gladiators I would cut both evos to 2 and one Marino to make room for 3x Emeral.
Maybe cutting one of Holy Awe and Pit for two Surfers and to reduce the risk of having a spell in turn 2 in your mana for Belix.

Thank you for your comments Smile Really appreciate it.
1. About the point of switching to other race, yes in deed I have LWD Marino Initiates and LWD Marino Guardians deck. And also LWD Marino Chimera, Ghost and some other Marino without Evo creatures. Unfortunately I don't have time to post discuss them recently. They are not as strong as the LWD Marino Ailzonius-Hydrooze deck though imo.

2. Yes the early game is a big problem for this to be aggro deck. I have been considering whether I should call it Aggro or Midrange deck. Initially, I decided to call it aggro because Ailzonius and Hydrooze are two strong aggro creatures per se. But otherwise I think this deck is more midrange than aggro after some more time of playing it. The color of civs  and the choice of creatures here simply do not allow early aggro. Whether it's an aggro or a midrange deck is just a name of reference. But I get your point that no matter how it's called (aggro or midrange), it lacks the early aggro power.

3. I have tried adding Emeral and Surfer, but they have their problems. It could hurt in a deck playing Marino, ant cutting other cards to make room for them is also damaging to the game plan. I tend to favor adding Emeral more if I have to choose, because like you said it offers early aggro, and it is a good race for hydrooze, plus it can allow shield manipulation, which is great with Holy awe.

4. So far having 6 spells in this deck is not causing any problem in turn 2 with belix just by my limited experience, although I don't know the statistical chance of it. Perhaps some mathematics should be done here to calculate the chance, but unfortunately I don't know anything about math.

5. Similar to point 2, I tend to favor 3 Marino than just 2. I feel that everything below 2 cards (except hand guards) would compromise the consistency of the game plan.
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Post by madmicro0430 18.12.21 16:21

Hi all. Time for an update of the Marino decks.
As said before, I have built multiple versions of the LWD Marino Aggro/Midrange decks. Today, I will like to share another version of this deck.

Unlike most of my other Marino decks, this deck does not have evo creatures. It certainly has its downsides because of that, but this deck can rely on another tactic to win the game.

Let's jump right into it!
Updates on LWD Marino Aggro Deck (13/3/2022) Miele10

Mana cost - number of cards:
2-8
3-8
4-8
5-8
6-8
I reckon more 2-3 drops would be better in terms of early aggro. I personally think you can change tactics while you are in the game. If you don't have an early 2 drop, then maybe it's wiser not to attack in the early game at all, and wait for opportunities.

Number of cards of different civs:
Light: 18
Water: 14
Darkness: 12

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The fun part of this deck is the use of Ularus to reveal the shields of your opponent, and then you can attack the shields strategically. The whole deck is build around this strategy of "revealing shields".  

Let me explain some of the cards choices, especially when the card choices are different from the 1st Marino deck that I have shared.
1. Why melnia and spinning terror as the 2-drop choices, and miele as the 3 drop?
Both darkness creatures are essential to increase the number of darkness cards. Spinning terror has particular good synergy with Miele for obvious reasons.

2. Why surfer over terror pit (contrary to the 1st Marino deck)?
It is to increase the number of field presence as much as possible in order for Ularus to work best by revealing more shields. It runs the risk of being discarded by Marino though.

3. Petrova
You can see that the races in this deck is pretty diverse. Therefore, unlike decks like initiates aggro, HH, LW Ailzonius, the utility of petrova is relatively diminished, but it still does its job by raising maybe just 1 or 2 creatures of your board.

Weaknesses:
1. No evo creatures. Sometimes, you do need an evo creature as a speed attacker to win the game.
2. Not enough 2-3 drops.
3. Aggro creatures are mostly 1-2k power
4. The effect of ularus may not be as big as it seems. Many a times, the aggro strategy can be so successful that you don't need the ularus strategy to win the game. Or you are in the losing position already because of your opponent's aggro deck before you can summon ulnarus to win.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recently, I have made one change to this deck that I find it actually more useful than it looks.
To change Miele to Pala Oasis.
While this change seems counter-intuitive to the aggro/midrange strategies, I think it actually works better with the Ularus strategy.
Updates on LWD Marino Aggro Deck (13/3/2022) Pala_o10

Reason 1: Pala Oasis can better protect the 1 drop and 2 drops in this deck, therefore avoid running the risk of the whole board being wiped out by your opponent's aggro creature or mass removal spells.

Reason 2: It also provide you the chance of aggro actually, better than Miele. While I understand that Miele can attack your opponent and Pala Oasis can't, Miele is just a 1k body that dies to your opponent's creatures when it attacks. So it sometimes can be a problem when you attack with it. Moreover, Pala Oasis can better protect your spinning terror (and melnia) against spells like Volcano charger, Phantom dragon flame, and protect against creatures like Gonta and Quixotic Hero in RUG aggro deck by having a spinning terror with 5k power when your opponents plans to attack it. Then you won't fear attacking shields (and melnia) with your spinning terror.

Ultimately, pala oasis can preserve your board presence, thus maximizing the utility of Ulnarus.

Because of time, this discussion has been brief. I hope you enjoy it. Feel free to leave comments below.
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Post by madmicro0430 11.02.22 2:41

Hi guys, today I would like to share with you an update on the LWD Marino-Ailzonius-Hydrooze deck.
Updates on LWD Marino Aggro Deck (13/3/2022) Lwd_ai10

Changes made:
-1 Magris
-1 Holy awe
+2 Petrova

-1 Magris because:
1. Don't wanna further lower the water/darkness count
2. Don't wanna cut Ailzonius to 2 copies, as it will make the Ailzonius play inconsistent
3. Still enough draw power for this deck
4. Still have 9 4-drops for turn-4 play

-1 Holy awe because:
1. Not really needed 3 copies in this aggro deck when you go pass through blockers with Hydrooze
2. Can retrieve the holy awe in mana zone in belix if it goes to the mana zone in the early game

+2 Petrova because:
1. Can boost the power of cyberlords/hedrians which are vulnerable to fire mass removal spells
2. Simply a great card itself by not being able to be targeted

So far don't feel the need to increase the 2-drop and 3-drop count. The aggro pressure is compensated by having Petrova, Hydrooze and Ailzonius (which is also the reason why I wouldn't cut the number of Ailzonius and Hydrooze)
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Post by Halfar 11.02.22 16:56

madmicro0430 wrote:Hi guys, today I would like to share with you an update on the LWD Marino-Ailzonius-Hydrooze deck.
Updates on LWD Marino Aggro Deck (13/3/2022) Lwd_ai10



Very cool deck! This is a fresh and strong aggro deck.
Well done mate.

Imo Syrion is crazy and should be played at 4 copies because you need CyberLords AND Gladiators.

You have 7 T3 Plays and 9 (+3 Hydrooze) T4 Plays. Imo T3 is more important.
I would cut -1 Magris for +1 Syrion.

Other than that - pretty cool. Do you have problems with Darkness Mana sometimes?
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Post by madmicro0430 12.02.22 5:05

Halfar wrote:
madmicro0430 wrote:Hi guys, today I would like to share with you an update on the LWD Marino-Ailzonius-Hydrooze deck.
Updates on LWD Marino Aggro Deck (13/3/2022) Lwd_ai10



Very cool deck! This is a fresh and strong aggro deck.
Well done mate.

Imo Syrion is crazy and should be played at 4 copies because you need CyberLords AND Gladiators.

You have 7 T3 Plays and 9 (+3 Hydrooze) T4 Plays. Imo T3 is more important.
I would cut -1 Magris for +1 Syrion.

Other than that - pretty cool. Do you have problems with Darkness Mana sometimes?

Thx Smile
I will adopt ur suggestion (i.e. -1 Magris +1 Syrion) atm to see whether it goes well. There might be 2 potential problems with this change:
1. insufficient draw, especially against decks with loco/cranium clamp
2. bricky early game with too many multi-civ cards
But we will see Smile

I don't have problem with the darkness mana so far, as hydrooze and pit will frequently go to the mana zone in the early game. Perhaps the only time that the darkness mana is a problem is I want 2 darkness mana in one turn for evolution, one for propeller mutant, one for hydrooze, but it is a rare occasion.
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Post by madmicro0430 13.03.22 10:29

Hi today I want to share 2 other versions of LWD Marino Aggro Deck Smile

Updates on LWD Marino Aggro Deck (13/3/2022) Lwd_ma11

Updates on LWD Marino Aggro Deck (13/3/2022) Lwd_ma12

I guess detailed discussion is not necessarily as many points are similar to previously stated.
One note is that Spinning terror has particularly great synergy with tap cards like Holy Awe, Crazem Miele.
It can attack 8k-9k creature when your opponent has many creatures on board being tapped by Awe, a great card indeed.
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Post by Xboom3000 13.03.22 15:40

Is there a particular reason for Ularus in the 2nd deck? Stands out as odd to me Very Happy Have you felt that the ability is needed for the deck to see the shields?
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Post by madmicro0430 13.03.22 16:26

Xboom3000 wrote:Is there a particular reason for Ularus in the 2nd deck? Stands out as odd to me Very Happy Have you felt that the ability is needed for the deck to see the shields?

TY for ur question Smile

I think one can agree that knowing your opponent's shields is always a big advantage as you know which shield to attack. This is true to every deck.

The reason for including ularus in this deck, however, is more complicated.

My thinking process at the time is as follows:
1. 38 cards in this deck are already fixed (i.e. cards except Ulnarus)
2. I needed 2 more light mana to make the civs more balanced
3. Among the light cards, it is better to be a creature with CIP effects or a spell with excellent effect (which I think only Holy Awe fulfill this criteria in this aggro deck, and there are already 3 copies of it; more is not needed) to keep up the aggro pressure
4. Among the light creatures with CIP effects, it's better not to be 2-4 drops, as they are plenty sufficient in no., and it can be vulnerable to mass removal spells, and also because 4-drops is particularly in excess in this deck already
5. Having only 2 slots available for that light creature, that creature should better generate a huge one-off/static advantage (just like petrova) such that there is no need for 4 copies (like magris or hulcus) of it
6. So the light creature of interest ideally would be a 5-drop or above with superb come into play effects that can facilitate the aggro strategy  

So when I use the octgn search engine to look for such creature, I think Ularus is the most ideal one.
Not sure if you agree with me.

Ularus can synergize with the huge board presence created in this deck.
Knowing the shields can also allow me to avoid mass removal shield triggers, e.g. burst shot, which are particularly detrimental to this deck as many of my creatures are 1-2k if not buffed.
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Post by Xboom3000 14.03.22 12:42

madmicro0430 wrote:
5. Having only 2 slots available for that light creature, that creature should better generate a huge one-off/static advantage (just like petrova) such that there is no need for 4 copies (like magris or hulcus) of it

I would personally just use 4 copies of Petrova to make it more consistent, but I can see your point. Smile Ularus definitely makes it more fun and can in certain situations be even better than Petrova. If there was search in the deck, then I could see having multiple options be better though.

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